I had a very long conversation (3 hours) with a pastor friend of mine tonight. We spent a few moments catching up with each other before he began inquiring about my ministry and upcoming banquet. He was excited to hear about all of the great things God was doing in and through Stand for Truth Ministries, but wanted to leave me with a bit of sound advice: “Drop the “A” word.” He went on to suggest that “if you want to effectively reach the “black” church you are going to have to eliminate the term from your vocabulary.” So what’s the “A” word? It’s the word Apologetics.
Now as a disclaimer let me say that while it might be the case that other races face the same challenges when presenting apologetics, our discussion is about me as an African American Apologist and the difficulties I face in presenting Apologetics in the “Black” church.
"Use the word at home and no where else.” After all, he remarks, “at the end of the day, no one goes to heaven by apologetics.” He offered several reasons in support of his point. First, the vast majority of black pastors are insecure and may feel intimidated by having someone like me speak or teach at their church. In his experience, many black pastors find Apologetics to be divisive, undermines their authority and may bring into question their ability to “hear from God.” How you might ask? Well if the pastor as the “head, father, or prophet” of that house (the Church), is unable to elaborate on or reiterate the points of discussion that the apologist brings up, he might find this challenging to his ability to "hear from God" or reveal a lack of knowledge on his part in a particular area or study. He felt that the result of this may cause some to feel like they may lose members and as a result, money.
Secondly, he suggest to me that “no one knows about apologetics and no one cares . . . It’s just not of interest to them.” He went on to say that what people are concerned about today are “real life challenges” such as “gas prices, the fact that my babies are hungry, or that my family member is on drugs, or the fact that I’m about to lose my home.” He wanted me to realize that no one but me was interested in that stuff; it was just a passion of mine. “People don’t care about that stuff Hayes, as long as you are not teaching heresy, love Jesus, teach people to live better, and preach truth, that’s all that matters because (the last point) at the end of the day you don’t need apologetics to get to heaven." I remember a leader once expressing somewhat of the same idea to me when I told him what I was going to school for. He said, "you will be like a car driving in the snow . . . sure your wheels are spinning, but you ain't going anywhere."
Before I give my thoughts, I would really like to hear from you (especially Pastors and Leaders)
21 comments:
Here's the problem. Your pastor friend is partially right. It is true that the Black Church does not care about the A word. He is also right in saying that the A word causes great consternation in Black pastors because they look and feel insecure. And he is right when he says that black people are not concerned about defending their faith but are concerned about gas prices and eating. But he is absolutely wrong about dropping the A word. The issues that he mentioned are not good things! He should be ashamed of his race if they are more concerned about feeling insecure than about knowing truth. He should be embarrassed that he cannot offer more intellectually rigorous sermons because he has to preach about gas and food. And you should be embarrassed for him because he does not know the role apologetics plays in leading people to Christ.
Bro. Shawn,
Let me start by saying that I appreciate your ministry and find it to be a valuable gift in the body.
To your pastor friend, I think while his reflections might have some value, I certainly don't think they are totally accurate. I think most Christians would welcome the opportunity to learn how to defend their faith and deepen their understanding. I think insecurity is an issue for some pastors, but i think irrelevance is the larger issue. If a more robust vision of Christian education could be created within the context of Christian discipleship, i think apologetics would certainly be found more relevant.
I could go on longer but its late and i'm tired...i just got on here to register...would love to continue this conversation soon...
Brother David Rondaris,
I have some serious thoughts on what I have been hearing more and more lately. I have heard an abundance of expectancy and liberalism flooding the church world. I do not agree with many beliefs that I am aware of out there I don’t believe in the trinity and I know that you do Bro. Hays. I am a One God Apostolic Bible believing devil stomp’n Jesus namer all the way. I use to be a trinitarian. My point is this I am thankful for those who will stand for their faith. Consider Saul, who was later sure named Paul. He proclaims that he had a zeal of God but was wrong in that he persecuted the Church of God. Now had it not been for those who would stand for their faith; Peter, Stephen, John and so on, The Apostle Paul would not have come to the place that he did. I personally think that the day he held the coats of them that stoned Stephen; I think Paul was in awe at the zeal that he seen in Stephen. Remember Paul was one who could recognize zeal for he was a zealous man for what he believed. So now we establish zeal, well what if you are wrong? That is ok too, God seen the zeal of a man who desired more of God and took all he had done wrong and stopped him dead in his tracks and said “Saul, Saul why persecutest thou me”? You see it may not be to popular with the secular church, but Jude said to “earnestly contend for the common salvation that was once delivered to the saints” that word contend means to fight or give diligently to the faith. If we need see examples just read the gospel s and the Acts of The Apostles. All I know is that if those who have faith in something do not divorce the things of this world and separate ourselves not as isolationists but righteousness unto God we will struggle continually with the precepts of this world and you better believe that it has flooded the churches. I am not afraid to Bible study the trinity and the one God message. I am thankful for people like you Bro. Hays that stand for something. I don’t want to be like Israel and Brother Paul said it like this Romans 10:1 My prayer to God for Israel is that they might be saved for they have a zeal of God but not according to knowledge. Paul declares in this statement that Israel is lost without the knowledge of God, so if we think we can all just kinda believe different and all be save by zeal, you better look at Israel and what Paul the Apostle was saying. Fight for what you believe it is not popular and you will not befriend all but this one thing is true if you believe it, stand for it, and if God wants you to know more learn it but don’t ever waver. Bro you and I don’t believe the same thing and I do not think that is ok but I can respect the fact that you are standing for what you believe. Or hey, we could all just say believe what you want and let us not conform to the word of God but let the word conform to us (but don’t forget Jesus and all them that followed shortly behind him were almost all martyred) Jesus died not willing to take on the ways of the world! I will not receive them either; I CHOSE TO BE A CHRISTIAN
Shawn,
Your pastor friend is right. There are only three types of people who need apologetics:
1. People outside the faith who are willing to consider Christianity.
2. People newly inside the faith whose confidence would be bolstered by the knowledge of Jesus's divinity.
3. People who witness to the folks in #1 or disciple the folks in #2.
Hmm... I think that covers about everybody. :-)
shawn, I can't speak to the cultural issues in the black community of believers, but in the hispanic cultures, I think there's a similar impatience with apologetics. it might have to do with individual educational levels of preparation, or with cultural-economic pressures that are felt as more "pressing". In any case, this is one of the dangers of appealing only to "felt needs." working in the field of medicine, what's good for you isn't always symptomatic--high blood pressure is deadly because it doesn't have symptoms, and people tend to ignore it if they don't "feel bad". apologetics is the medication for the disease that is there (un-challenged anti-christ ideas and positions) but so often goes undetected. Just because people aren't interested doesn't justify withholding the medicine. just a thought--pacdave
Dear Shawn,
I much prefer English. The A word is way too esoteric and churchy.
There is nothing more important than the condition of our hearts; however, our hearts are easily deceived by wishful thinking. Our hearts cannot stand alone.
Consequently, to support our hearts and build a foundation, we must know the TRUTH. Jesus Christ IS the TRUTH! The truth establishes the basis for all relationships and activities. Jesus cannot be REAL until we know His Word is true. Only then can we love the Lord with all our heart, soul, MIND, and strength. And then love our neighbor as we love ourselves.
Church education and sermons have had it backwards; we use the Bible to prove the Bible BEFORE we prove the Bible is true.
When we get out into the world we are shocked to discover our faith has no foundation after all those years in church and Sunday School.
What a waste!
A pastor arguing that somehow the truth is detrimental to ministry is so sad to say the least. As you know, all the surveys by Barna, Josh McDowell, etc. indicate church attendance and Biblical knowledge in the western world has fallen to the point just 10% regularly attend "Christian" church in the US and of those only 2% believe the Bible is entirely true and can tell you WHY they believe.
It doesn't sound like your pastor friend is going to improve the foundation for faith in his church.
Truth is mentioned 189 times in Scripture. 'Understanding', 'light', etc. are also used many times. Jesus Christ proved Himself over and over; He did not intend for us to be able to stand firm (with only our hearts) against Satan.
Knowing the truth does not save us; it removes most of the roadblocks so we can be saved. If we don't know the truth, we have no hope. (NONE of my old classmates who had a heart for Jesus are Christians today; their blind faith was easily stolen!
I pray the Holy Spirit will give us the wisdom and courage to recognize the truth and use our hearts and minds for the glory of Jesus Christ- to help all seekers of the Truth find Him.
God's very best to you, Shawn.
Bob Bailey
Shawn, good luck.
I and two other African-American ministers started an Apologetics ministry in Atlanta in 1998. It lasted only four years. Unfortunately, all of the objections your pastor friend raises are true and were contributing factors to the demise of our work.
Ignorance is rife within the Black church and Black pastors are leading the way, sad to say. Apologetics is a Spirit-led presentation of a Gospel-centered worldview that is by nature an ANALYTICAL enterprise and we found that this just didn't resonate with Black folks. Yeah sure, out of a 500 member church we'd get a handful of interested brothers and sisters to come to a coffee talk or an occasional conference. But we were hamstrung by pastors who were suspicious of our motives. We got labeled "heresy hunters", or "too intellectual", nobody returned our calls or asked us back to speak at their youth rallies or from the pulpits. The bigger the church - the worse we were received.
We did all the right things: newsletters, websites, flyers, mailings, radio broadcasts, and musical presentations. It mystified us for a while b/c we felt the Black church slipping away even in the mid-90s. Churches were like, "whatever!", while dabbliing and dipping in liberalism, Word-Faith teaching, and Five Pecenter street knowledge.
Shawn, it began to dawn on us after about two years of beating our heads against the wall that the Black church is largely Fideist, Kierkegaardian and non-systematic. ANALYTICAL approaches to faith are rejected tout court b/c the acceptable method of knowledge in the Black community is experientialism (as Rev. Jeremiah Wright so recently confirmed) and this is reinforced in our schools, in our communities, in our homes, and in our churches. Experientialism values style, innovation, "feel", and the "jazz" approach to Apologetics. See Carl Ellis for further reseach into this.
It's all related. C'mon, Black folks have traditionally lagged so far behind in standardized test scores in this country for a reason. "We" are NOT teaching our children to be ANALYTICAL because we never have. "We" are not teaching our children to be systematic in their approaches to knowledge becuase we never have. And why haven't we? Because of historic racism, I think.
Think on it. Systemized approaches to knowledge have been the domain of the dominant (White) culture in this country and is largely viewed with susupicion by African-Americans b/c of its misuse against them historically. Thus, the apologetic initiative - employing "thesis, premises, and conclusion" method strikes many Black folk as a "White" approach to believing what they already believe "just so" or "by faith". Faith doesn't need reasons, many pastors argue. Now it make sense that the UCC website says that confessions and creeds are not "tests of faith" but "testimonies of faith".
Makes ya wanna holler. My people are destroyed for LACK of knowledge.
66fredo99,
Dude, we need to hook up. I'm in Atlanta and I am an apologist. www.leroylamar.com
L
Oh, btw, White folks LOVED our ministry. 99.9% of our support came from White churches, pastors, and para-church organizations.
But after awhile it got kinda old to be constantly saying to White congregations that "our passion and desire was for Truth to be upheld and sustained in the Black Church, though we don't get to preach or teach much there at all."
I hope this doesn't sound all gloom and doom, but I'd be a glad supporter and disciple to anyone who could untangle the problem of why Apologetics can't seem to minister to the African-American church - and bring about change.
Dear Shawn,
This view has been the standard view in most Protestant (especially evangelical) churches for decades, black, white and otherwise. The problem with this view is that the Zeitgeist (conventional wisdom or “elite culture” or secular culture) of most schools, the media, etc., claims that Christianity is a fantasy and worse, and when young people and others enter the secular culture and cannot refute the assaults in Christian belief, belief suffers accordingly. In response, most Christians have sought to live in a subculture that insulates them from the Zeitgeist in the hope that by withdrawing from mainstream society, they can be safe.
However, this view is dead wrong and is exactly contrary to Christian teachings. Paul did not hide away in a subculture — he directly went into and confronted mainstream circles and entered into public debate on the questions people had in philosophy, theology, history, etc.
This is a major reason why C.S. Lewis and his work has been so enormously effective — it follows in this powerful tradition.
I believe that pastors who oppose apologetics are cowardly because they do not want to have to enter into discussions or answer the questions that most people have. Instead, they pander to their own audiences and simply reinforce the status quo. To defend against the secular culture requires work to learn and have the ability to communicate effectively. Preaching to the choir is not enough and utilizing techniques and arguments that are only suitable to reach the ignorant and the easily led is not in keeping with God’s calling to us to use all of our blessings to engage and refute the lies that materialist culture spins on a daily basis. If we are to be effective in advancing Christianity in society, avoiding the questions of society is no solution.
Here is a quote from Lewis that you might find relevant:
“The difficulty we are up against is this. We can make people (often) attend to the Christian point of view for half an hour or so; but the moment they have gone away from our lecture or laid down our article, they are plunged back into a world where the opposite position is taken for granted. Every newspaper, film, novel and textbook undermines our work. As long as that situation exists, widespread success is simply impossible. . . . What we want is not more little books about Christianity, but more little books by Christians on other subjects. . . . It is not the books written in direct defense of Materialism that make the modern man a materialist; it is the materialistic assumptions in all the other books. In the same way, it is not books on Christianity that will really trouble him. But he would be troubled if, whenever he wanted a cheap popular introduction to some science, the best work on the market was always by a Christian.”
—C. S. Lewis, author, Mere Christianity, The Abolition of Man, and other books
Thanks again.
Best regards,
David
--
David J. Theroux
Founder and President
C. S. Lewis Society of California
100 Swan Way, Suite 200
Oakland, CA 94621-1428
(510) 635-6892 Phone
(510) 568-6040 Fax
dtheroux@lewissociety.org
http://www.lewissociety.org
I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your blog, because it confirms that I AM NOT CRAZY! (Well at least not entirely, LOL) For years now, I have ministered along side you and observed the "shunning" of apologetics in the "black” church but yet the increase in entertainment and emotionalism. I mean you go to church on Sunday and the place is packed but only a small fraction of folks attend weekly Bible Study. How are we to contend for our faith if we do not know our faith, and can not effectively articulate it (lovingly and Biblically) to others. It seems that all we want is experiences with and financial blessings from God but we take no pleasure in worshipping Him simply because of who He is. So, at times, in my frustration I say Why Bother!?! but then there are those few that God places in my path that are earnestly seeking to grow in the Word of God and their understanding of His character and attributes. And that my dear is what keeps me studying; keeps me teaching; and emails like yours – encourage me to continue to Stand for the Truth of the historic Christian faith. And yes, via the discipline of Apologetics!
Bro. Hayes,
As a fairly young christian educator, who teaches urban youth, in a world & time of "glitz & glamour", "get rich quick" & "do what you got to do to survive" I some what understand the argument that we have to teach & preach about life issues, but then what? We're dealing with insecure pastors but also insecure saints; "I believe because grandma & them did", or "playing church" (coming in on Sunday's and that's it, no room for real bible study & learning God's word, just coming for show). It's sad, but we know it's true.
The "A" word is DEFINITELY needed because now we understand why I believe what I believe and can't get derailed! People (youth in particular) go along with things because they seem right, but when do we start to dig for the truth ourselves? What you've accomplished with Stand for Truth is not only necessary, but effective! If pastors are going to get challenged, let it be on something that can only make their churches stronger. You already know they hated on Jesus, so even when people may not try to or purposefully do so, they're going to hate on you too. You, your wife and your daughters are doing something GREAT for Christ and HIS people, and I look forward to working with you all again.
God Bless YOU Brother.
Ny (CVCC)
CJ - your comment is very witty ... can I use that???
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All This is sad to hear but then again we already knew it ... what can ya say? All we can do is be faithful to our calling! A true minister gives what people NEED not just what they WANT.
On the bright side, there are new cats coming up such as FLAME, LECRAE, and AMBASSADOR who defy all these stereotypes and should give us hope.
No one said it would be easy and some of these pastors and parishioners should be straight up slapped ... just kidding ... kinda.
vocab
First and foremost, Shawn let me encourage you to continue to stand on the work that you know God called you to do. It's a blessing to the body of Christ.
"The Black Church" is comprised of a lot of people. I don't think using blanket statements is the best approach.
The great commission tells us to go and evangelize the world, yet most congregants in the "Black Church" (blanket)are horrified at idea of knocking on doors or talking to co-workers or worse thier own teen-age kids about what the bible says.
Why are they afraid? Because they (we) fear getting asked certain questions about our own faith, the same questions that we ourselves had or may still have but wasn't aware of the "A" word. Those questions (if not prepared to give an answer)tend to leave us in akward positions, one where we can find ourselves questioning our own faith. O.K. tell me again why do I believe Jesus died on a cross was buried and ressurected. C'mon man, does that even sound credible to you?
How many of those Pastor's are equipped or can answer the questions from a devout athiest, or Jehovah's witness, or muslim and not just about what they believe but also about what we believe and why. I know from personal experience how apologetics can enhance and strengthen what we already believe.
If Pastor's feel threatened GOOD! TIGHTEN UP YOUR SKILLS!!!! HIT THE BOOKS, PATNA!!!!
God bless you and your ministry.
Galations 6:9
And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart.
I tell you like this, The only thing that is important is doing what God has called Christians to do. And if you can equip thousands of Christians to "Know what you believe and why you believe it" in order to preach an accurate Word to lost souls then his argument does not hold well at all. Rev, I seen you encourage hundreds of people, including my self, to go beyond sermons of pastors and study for yourself. And with that knowledge, I was able to teach and encourage several people in the Lord and bring a few to Christ. If all those social things fail (Gas and Hunger) people need to know that there's a God that lives and is right there to help them stand through it all. Without this foundation God is nothing but a story book character who does miracle. And we know this is not truth. Evidence proves that. Be blessed.
When I first read this post I needed a couple of days to really chew on this topic. In my opinion I think we are missing the roll of a pastor of a church and an apologetics pastor. Both have the same gift of discernment of the word of God, but in complimenting fashion.
Every church regardless of the majority of the ethnicity needs a pastor. I’m sure we all agree on this point. The point of contention is whether apologetics is also needed in the church. I’m sure we can all agree, as Christians we are called to study the word and be ready to give an answer when asked.
So let me break it down this way. A pastor’s focus should be supporting the congregation. Addressing the needs of each member. An apologetics pastor’s focus is digging deeply into the word to assist the pastor of the church to address the esoteric questions that arise. For example, is there a link between the Muslim faith and the Bible? Do Jehovah witnesses believe in the bible? And the questions go on.
The pastor of the church speaks the word of God every Sunday morning, and the apologetics pastor conducts the small break out groups with deep seeded questions that aren’t answered or can’t be addressed from the pulpit.
In conclusion, it is my opinion that every pastor of a church should embrace an apologetics pastor to come along side him to feed the congregation.
Anthony,
I have to disagree with you on separating the role of the apologist from the role of the pastor. Paul exhorts both Timothy and Titus to be able to rebuke those who hold to false doctrine (2 Tim. 4:2-5; Titus 1:9). The role of a pastor isn't simply to care and support his flock. He is to defend and equip them to defend their faith.
Bro. Hayes
Being a child of a pastor, I am not shocked by the comment of your pastor friend and at the same time truly saddened. Unfortunately, having been in church literally all my life, I have only begun (age 31) to literally understand why & what I believe. Most Pastors are not concerned with ensuring their own households in faith, surely they will not be concerned with the Lord's people who hold their "paychecks" via tithes and offerings, therefore concerning themselves with only the cares of this world.....the gas prices and food. Thank you for standing for truth. I'm overdue for this ministry and look forward to reviewing and receiving more that I too may continue to stand and give an account. If it had not been for you and your family coming to CVCC, I would still be one of those folks waiting for the Mormons and JW's to get off my porch. Now, I welcome them in for a drink and ask, "just one more question"!
Hey Shawn,well that sounds somewhat true especially to those who are struggling,such as families or those who are just trying to understand the word first, the word apologetics is and intimidating word because most who are learning God's word first are having a difficult time just learning that. When you add on the "A" word it's not that people don't want to know it or hear it it's that people want to know what does it have to do with studying God's word itself, is it in the the bible and if so what,were,who,and what is being said and how does it affect or pertain to our everyday way of life. It is not just the Black church community it is multiple churches, the "A" word is not new just you have touched on something that God has given you to reach people with that many are not prepared for. Preparation is an everyday way of our lives some are ready to advance and some are stuck in the snow not knowing how to dig out for survival because they trust in themselves and not the survival guide, God, he is our tool,his word and the "A" word is just another one added to survive.
Although I am disqualified from answering the question as it pertains to being black, I am not when it comes to the role of the pastor. It has been my experience that this problem, that is the disregard for apologetics in churches, transcends racial boundaries, especially within the Pentecostal/Charismatic circles. Thus, there seems to be an ever-growing anti-intellectual movement which emphasizes experiece over reason. Those who endeavor to provide rational defenses for the Christian faith are labled as less spiritual, even "carnal." Suffice it to say that this problem, in my opinion, is more pervasive than we think.
My question is how do we change this trend?
Pastor Hayes,
This is an excellent subject to address because of the misunderstanding surrounding the Black church's beliefs and the topic of apologetics. This conversation gives credence to at least subjects that many people have not done a thorough enough study in to take their comments seriously. Number one, The Black church. Many people have not studied the black historucally, nor even understand where we are today as a result of that undertanding, but even in their ignorance, they give credit that there is uch an institution. Number two, apologetics simply means a ready defense or answers for why a person has faith. African Americans have always given reasons for why they are Christians and considering the historical racism that has kept many African american out of seminary and higher education in general, some should have this perspective before condemning African Americans for not caring about apologetics. Obviously some do not know or choose to ignore how Jesus' concern is the issues of the poor (helping the poor with THEIR issue)and how if we have done it unto the least of these, Jesus says we have done it unto him. Seems to me that if Jesus ws concerned about the needs of the poor we should be. Espescially in this country where African Americans have been systematically stripped for centuries of basic citizens rights. Now apologetics have certain levels. On one level you have the simple doctrines of the faith which offer answers or a ready defense for the faith. On another level you have the academic disciplines like bioethics, creation vs. evolution, etc. which require more rigorous study. Yet, there is anonther level of apologetics which deals with philosophy and topics like truth, beauty, evil, etc. None of us have mastered all of these levels and my question is, given the oppressive nature of American society towards African Americans, why not address the systems historically and presently in place designed to coninue to oppress the african American. Just because you become a Christian, the system does not just disappear, it intensifies. Jesus said we are in the world, bit not of it. He also prayed the the Kingdom of heven would come on earth, so earth, especially American culture in particular, has historically been set up to oppress African Americans. Once we become Christians, our duty is not to criticize the opppressed, but to bring justice and truth to the oppressed through the Gospel. So my assessment of the "A" word is that African American Christians have always embraced the "A" word, but maybe its been our approach to teaching a one size fits all style over substance. What works in a European based church where priviledge and education al opportnities have been historically designed to flourish them, this approach is more acceptable. Esppecially since food and gas are not real concerns or isues in their lives, but we as Christians should look for opportunities to improve or edify rather than be embarrassed about not being able to offer more intellectually rigorous sermons. Intellect is only one form of intelligence and who says its the single most important for of intelligence. I look forward to the challenge of understanding the AFRICAN AMERICAN Church and best to offer apologetics to our brothers and sisters who are still apart of the body, last time I checked.
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